UK to US Sizing Isn't Always A Direct Conversion

 Many years ago, I tried an Elila bra that I really loved.  At the time, I was a 36FF UK and the direct conversion would have been a 36H since the company uses U.S. sizing.  However, the 36F fit best.  I'm a bit "fluffier" nowadays, to use a term coined by Gabriel Iglesius, so I knew I was no longer either of those sizes.

In the Elomi Morgan, I'm a 40GG.  The direct conversion would be a 40J so I ordered that, a 38J, and a 38I.  Why I didn't also order a 40I, I'm not sure.

I ordered the different sizes so that I'd have sister-sizes to accommodate any need for smaller bands or smaller cups.

38K ---> 40J (40GG UK)

38J ---> 40I (40G UK)

38I ---> 40H (40FF UK)

Here is the 40J.  You can easily see it does NOT fit.  At all.

There was a TON of space in the band.  Lots of wrinkling in the cups

.

Lots of wrinkles at the top of the cup.  I could have put my whole purse in there.

My pinky is covering the underwire.  Yes, my whole hand fits in that unfilled part of the cup.

I loved the charcoal gray color but this clearly doesn't fit so I moved on to the next contender: 38J in a beautiful wine color called Plum.

Still too large in the cup.  The band was a hair snug.

The 38I was the best fit.  If you clicked on the link to the previous blog post (above), you'll see it's the same color as before, just a different size.

No wrinkles in the cups except at the bottom.

You can see the wing is being pulled a smidge but there's no way I could size up any further since we know the 40 band is WAY too big.

The gore is almost completely flat against my sternum.  Part of the separation is because I'm leaning forward for this picture.

When I swoop and scoop, there is a bit of space at the bottom of the cup.

The 38I fit darn near perfect but it was 1/2 inch too tight in the band and, with the boning that is sewn along the wing to prevent rolling, it would be painful to wear in just a matter of an hour or two.

For comparison's sake, I ordered another Elomi Morgan (in 40GG) so that I could be sure I was comparing all new bras.  Here are the pictures of the Elomi:

The takeaway from all this: UK to US sizing is not always a direct conversion when you're comparing different brands.

When Should I "Sister-Size" Bra Fit?

Let's first talk about what sister-sizing means.  It's a term used when you adjust to a smaller or larger band while still having the same fit in the cups.  Cups are based on volume and sister-sizing accommodates that, to an extent.

To illustrate...

A 34C "sisters" to a 32D when you need a smaller band.
A 34C "sisters" to a 36B when you need a larger band.

Image source: https://thelingerielesbian.tumblr.com/post/65660813129/im-feeling-alittle-confused-about-bra-sizesi

This really only works when you're working within the same brand and style.  Mainly because sizes between different brands don't translate exactly.  You can't go from a 34C in Panache to a 36B in Chantelle because they're constructed differently.  But it becomes even more important in the larger cups.  The sizing becomes quite disparate above a DD cup.  Panache uses UK sizing and Chantelle uses EU sizing.  So where a Panache 34F sisters to a 32FF, Chantelle 34F, sisters to a 32G.

Even within the same brand, you can't do a straight sister size from one style to the next because, again, the construction and materials are often different.  A cup with one piece to the cups--think molded cups--are going to fit differently than a cup with multiple pieces.  Always start with the band size that has been determined to be your best fit, check it for snugness (upside down is one good way to do that) then adjust for cup fit.

In some instances, sales associates at well-known stores have taken sister-sizing to the extreme, in an effort to fit the breast volume.  This is completely incorrect.  Always fit the band first.

But, what do I mean "to the extreme"?

Say someone is UK 32G.  In shorthand, sistering looks like this 32G - 34FF - 36F - 38DDD (UK E)

When you consider that the band is what your ribcage measures around its circumference, it becomes quite obvious that someone who measures 38 inches will, in no way, fit into a 32 band.  Conversely, someone who measures into a 32 band will be swimming in a 38.  Where the sales associates are able to "make it work" is when someone has breast volume well beyond any cup that they carry (example: UK HH cup) but they want to make a sale.

Well, if the store sells 38DDD, sales associates have been known to "encourage" their 32G customer into it because it "totally fits".  Yeah, no.

Say it with me: Always fit the band, first, then adjust for the cup.

If the cup sizes don't go up high enough in a particular brand, you're going to have to find a different brand.

This may help with that:

28J+ : Curvy Kate, Ewa Michalak, Comexim, Panache, Bravissimo
30HH+ : Above + Freya, Tutti Rouge, Fantasie, Kris Line, Parfait
32H: Above + Flirtelle, Pour Moi, Shock Absorber, Gorsenia, Samanta
34GG: Above + Elomi, Avocado, All Undone, Miss Mandalay, Ewa Bien
36G: Above + Claudette, Goddess, Gorgeous, Prima Donna, Sculptresse
38FF: Above + Wolf & Whistle, Gossard, Change, Chantelle, Alegro
40F: Above + Cacique, Natori, Wacoal, Fayreform, Curvy Couture
42E: Above + Montelle, Kiabi, La Isla, Addiction, Ava
44DD: Above + Bali, Soma, Wonderbra, The Natural, Best Form

(source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ABraThatFits/)

The main takeaway is this: Always fit the band, always trust your gut on fit, and don't let anyone pressure you into buying what you don't actually love.  Sister-size when the cup fits but the band doesn't quite fit.  If it still doesn't fit, it may be a shape mismatch and you need to try a different style and/or brand.

Breasts Have Roots? What Are They, Trees? (A Different Aspect)

Last year, I wrote a post about the height of breast roots.  This post is about a different expanse of the same roots: width.  Breasts can be anywhere along the width spectrum from very wide--with tissue attaching well under the armpit--to very narrow--with tissue starting very much in front of the chest wall.

Many of us may have been wearing bras with cups that are too wide for our breasts and that's one reason why the wire poke us in the armpit.  Those wires could also just be too tall but for the sake of this post, we'll assume that all cups are just too wide.  A downside to wearing cups that are too wide AND not swooping and scooping, is that you could end up with migrated breast tissue that never returns home.  What do I mean by this?  Tissue that should be closer to the front of your chest ends up hanging out under your armpit.  A too-narrow cup is the biggest offender for making tissue migrate--think of when you put on some jeans that are too small...where does what doesn't fit go?  Outside the jeans in the form of muffin top.  You can get muffin top in two main areas in a too small/too narrow bra: your cleavage and your armpits.

Here is one example of a bra that has too wide of a cup for me (the mis-fit is pretty obvious):

You can see where the bra is sitting almost flush to my skin between my armpit and my breast.  I think this one makes me look a little shrinkwrapped, don't you?  Most of that "shrinkwrap effect" is due to the fact that it doesn't have enough projection at the bottom of the cup but it's the only photo I have of an obviously too wide cup.

So?  How can you tell the width of your breasts?

From a standing position, you might be able to tell by where your ribcage starts to present behind your breast tissue.  I'm not able to tell from this position but I know others have been able to do so.  Here's a sketch to illustrate what I mean:

The top sketch would be considered narrow.  The bottom one could fall into the wide root spectrum.  I determined my own width be leaning over, with nothing on, and checking myself out.  My breast tissue starts in front of my chest wall.  None of it attaches under my armpit.  Therefore, I search for medium to narrow cups.

I have to make a slight reference to other aspects of fit so that the experts don't start nay-saying me.  In the sketch, above. I say "could" fall into the wide root spectrum because they could also just be *wide-set* not wide rooted.  I'll save that for another post though.

So, back to my lean over assessment.  Here's a pic of me doing this assessment.  Please note that, yes, the boobs are covered.  However, this tube top that I've slid over my breasts like a sock does NOT pull them in.  They are still dangling free.

Thanks to some uncalculated yet strategic lighting, you can see the the shadow of my armpit and how it is further away from the center of my body; whereas, the root of my breast--so brightly lit lol--is closer to the center of my body.  That is why I have determined that I am narrow to medium rooted.

I hope this helps you with shape determination.

As a sidenote: If you have narrow to medium roots, Elomi is not a brand for you.  :)

Compromising An Aspect (Or Two) Of Fit While Searching For The Perfect Fit

I've been on my journey for the perfect fit for more than a year now.  In July of 2015, I found a style that would work for me while continued my search for "much better."  Along the way, I have tried more than 100 bras--some were the same style but different sizes; most were 36FF.  And then I gained weight and my shape changed ever so slightly.  But my size increased from that calculated 36FF to a 36GG/38G--two full cups.  I lean towards the 38 band because, at 39 inches around, my ribs won't be comfortable in a 36 band size.

As a result, I'm compromising even more.  Why?  Because I'm not going to stick at this weight.  This is road trip weight.  This is two and a half months of traveling across the United States.  This is sitting on my ass while I drove nearly 12,000 miles.  lol.  So, I compromise.  I bought some bras at a couple places during my trip--adjusting for my new size but not really able to accommodate my actual shape.  The reason being: the store that I stopped at didn't carry too many styles with medium to narrow cups.  They carry Elomi and other wider-cupped styles/brands.  I think it's because it's easier to put a narrow breasted woman in an Elomi and have her be satisfied with a "much better" fit than to try to carry the narrower cups and attempt to fit wider breasted women in them.  Most folks I know would rather have a slightly too big garment than a slightly too small one...in any garment.

So, where do I compromise?

Usually in bottom of the cup projection:

(sorry for the blurry photo)

Yep, that's my finger sitting in the space that doesn't come out immediately at the underwire.  You get this when you swoop & scoop and the cup is too shallow.

I already mentioned cup width.  That's another place that I compromise.

My actual width is about halfway between where that underwire is and where that seam is.  If the strap came straight down to meet the underwire, that's my root width.  BUT the underwire doesn't jab me in the armpit, despite ending there, so I wear the bra for now.

As for other areas of compromise, when it comes to this specific bra, the cup is actually a hair too small.  You can see it (sort of) in how the breast tissue is being dug into by the center gore and I'm quad-boobing a bit.  

Luckily, the top of the cup is stretch lace so this makes it easier to just go with the flow until I can continue my journey for a perfect fit.

So...where do YOU compromise on your Perfect Fit journey?

Visualizing the Sheer Number of Bra Sizes Out There...

I got to thinking, last night, about the sheer number bra sizes out there--at least 400--and how few are actually available to the general (shops at bricks and mortar stores) public in the United States--between 50 and 100.

Can you imagine if there were stores that carried all the sizes?  It could even be multiple stores, owned by the same company kind of like Chico's FAS has two stores that cater to different demographics but either can shop in both.  (Was that confusing?  It sounds confusing when I read it back.)  Chico's FAS owns Chico's (which caters to (and features in their ads) the 40+ year old woman who likes to be put together but not necessarily "businessy") and White House Black Market (which caters to the mid-20s to early 40s "businessy" demographic).  They used to also own Boston Proper (which catered to a whole different--more "vacationy" and sexier--facet of women's lives) but that went by the wayside.

Anyhow, back to the bras.  You could have one store with 26-40, AA-HH; one store with 42-56, AA-HH, and a third with 26-56, J-PP.  Hell, make it a whole multi-floor department store with sections for each size.  Call it the Bra Emporium.  A girl can dream about a world of bras with very well trained fitters.

Wow!  I got a bit off track from my original thought: visualizing all those sizes.

So, here is what we "see" at most any Victoria's Secret store:

Not in all styles but, for the most part, their bras, IN STORE, fall into that chart range.

And this is what contributes to people thinking that a D cup is HUGE.  It's not.  By any means.

What if you go to a midrange department store like JCPenney?  You'll probably "see" this:

I have to caveat this photo.  I kept my items square for ease of cropping.  You're not likely to find the upper Ds in a lot of midrange stores for size 30 bands; A-C cups, yes, but not much above that.  Same goes for the A and B cups in the 40+ bands.  (I fixed the erroneously colored in purple on my original product but all the pictures in this post are from the same photo, just cropped accordingly.)

And folks are still thinking a D cup is quite large.  Nope.  Still isn't.

Okay, so what if you go to a place like Nordstrom?  If you're lucky, you might have choices like this:

Maybe.
And you might be thoroughly confused because "Is it a UK size or a US size or a EU size?"  "What size am I?"  (I used UK (with a slight US overlap) on these charts.)

But those are still a lot of bra sizes, right?  You shouldn't need more than that, right?

WRONG.  That's not even a quarter of what bra size needs actually are.

Oh, and see where that "HUGE" D cup falls?  Not even in the middle now.  And, realistically, we need to get over this "Huge" and "Tiny" thing.  Breasts are just breasts.  And, in many cases, they cause great consternation to the person to whom their attached because of how American society reacts to them, no matter where they fall on a size chart.

For those who fall into the coming chart, they won't be surprised by the range of sizes but a lot of other folks might be.  So where does the remainder of the 400 sizes that I alluded to come from?

Here:

A whole gamut of bra sizes that are not sold in bricks and mortar stores; mainly, I think, because it "costs too much" to make that many bras.  I think we'll get there but it's going to take time and lots of education, on the part of the consumer.  The more that we educate people on their real size, the more they'll place a demand on bra manufacturers.  Is that DD from Victoria's Secret really your size or are you buying it because it's the only thing that you knew existed, that seemed to fit your breasts?

Hell, if Barbie, an icon for generations who had only one body type for decades, can get tall and petite and curvy, then bra manufacturers will provide when the demand is placed on them.  Even if they don't get to all the other Aspects of Fit, in all the sizes, just providing more sizes IN STORES is 

a start.

Want to find out what size you measure?  Check out the calculator here.  All you need is a soft tape measure and something to capture your numbers as you take them.  

What If I Don't Have A Tape Measure?

The first part of finding a bra that fits, is determining your band size.  The band is the measurement off which everything else is based.  You can't be specific about your cup size until you get your band size because your cup size is X inches larger (or smaller) in circumference than your band.  You could, feasibly, determine your shape without your band size but you'll have better success in determining which new bras to try with that first piece of information solidified.

So...what if you don't have a tape measure...but you do have some fairly new bras?  How can you use them to determine your band size?

Put one of those puppies on upside down, cups over belly.  Like so:

For modesty's sake, I kept my Chantelle on while I put the Elila on upside down.  You will want to ensure that the bottom of the band (which is at the top now) is all the way up in your IMF (aka boob crease) vs being pushed down by the underwire like you see above.

Now, how much space is between you and the band?

After having surgery in January and not getting much activity (but enjoying tasty food) there isn't much space between me and the band of my Elila so I haven't been wearing them at all in the past two months but...I digress.

If the fit is loose, the bra band is too large and you should go down to the next one.  If you can fit a whole hand width between you and the band, you might need to go down more than one band size.  If the fit is uncomfortably snug--like my Elila is to me currently--you will need to go up in the band.  If the band is comfortable, it will stay the same but you may need to adjust for cup size.

You can also check for snugness by checking how much tension is on the upper and lower hooks of the bra.  If they're straining, go a little larger so that you don't warp the shape of the cup in front.

So...if it's comfortable, flip the bra right side up and swoop and scoop.  That will determine the next step in your journey.  Bon voyage!!

The Accepted and Not Offensive Term is "Pendulous"

...and the technical term is "Ptosis."

Six months ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about saying "drooping" or "sagging."  They describe a state of being (regarding breasts, in this case) that I didn't blink at.  Say those words and everybody knows what you're talking about.  Unfortunately, words like droop or sag can be quite crushing to someone who is just coming up in the world or where the terms are used only with a negative connotation.  And, realistically, if you look at the synonyms for them, there doesn't appear to be any "good" words; though I do like languid--makes me think of an easy-going Summer day but I digress.

The term most accepted by those who participate in discussion about breasts on the subreddit ABraThatFits is "pendulous."  I have no problem switching to the accepted term.  Why would I fight to use droop or sag?  I have no intellectual ownership of them.  I gain nothing by insisting upon using them?  I would ask others, if you don't already use the term "pendulous", try to do so.

I once equated the term comparison of "sagging" and "pendulous" to that of "retarded" and "special needs", hoping to make a point.  It didn't appear to have worked.  Folks can be offended by the term "sagging" just as folks can be offended by the term "retarded."  Why not use the less offensive term if you lose nothing in doing so?

So, what is "pendulous"?  It's most literal definition, according to dictionary.com: hanging down loosely (with an example of "pendulous blossoms"--now that sounds quite pretty...makes me think of lilacs :) )

In terms of breasts, if they're pendulous, most of the breast tissue is below the Infra-Mammary Fold (IMF).  For those who have breasts that aren't pendulous, this condition might be associated with someone who has gained and lost a large amount of weight, someone who exercises without a bra, or someone who is aged.  Though commonly true, that is not always the case.  Anyone, at any age or level of maturity, can have pendulous breasts.  It's all about genetic, biological, and physiological structure.  There might be other -ogical things involved but it's late at night and none come immediately to mind.

To be pendulous doesn't always have to be large breasts either.  A person can be on the smaller end of the spectrum and still have pendulous breasts.  I had a customer a few years back who was quite thin.  She had pendulous breasts that were made up of just the skin.  There was very little fat within the breast.  And they were positioned below the IMF.  Pendulous.  Conversely, I've had customers who had very large, non-augmented breasts, that were not.

Again, it's just a matter of how the cells in your body are configured.  They are neither good nor bad.  They just are and they are you and you are a beautiful, unique combination of traits.

Finding the Correct Combination to the Perfect Fit

I was so excited to get started on this post that I had to force myself to finish folding the pile of laundry that had just come out of the dryer or it would never get folded.  I’d finish up this post and then find something else to do and the laundry would just never make it out of the basket.  Alas!  It is done!

So…why is it so dang difficult to find a bra that fits?  There are hundreds of styles out there.  It shouldn’t be so difficult, right?  Yeah, not so much.  (And this is where the fun part of this post comes into play because, see, I love analogies and I’m gonna use one that makes tons, oodles, lots of sense.  I hope).

Think of all the aspects of fit or aspects of breast configuration, in some cases.  Are you pondering them?  There’s a lot, right?  Let’s make a list…all the ones that I can think of right now:

• Pendulousness (shallow to waist level) **edited to keep the aspect in the same realm
• Root height (tall to short)
• Root width (narrow to wide)
• Root placement (close-set to wide-set)
• Fullness on Top
• Fullness on Bottom
• Firmness of tissue (Very firm to very malleable)
• Areola (Large to small)
• Nipples (Always erect to not)
• Breast direction (Splayed out to splayed in (forgive me, I don’t recall if there is a different term for splayed in))

That’s, what, ten aspects?  Now, imagine, for each aspect a scale from 0 to 9 on these ten aspects.  Maybe, yours looks like this: 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 9, 8, 9, 5 (I used my own to go with J).  You could almost say it like this: 555-555-9895.  Like it’s a phone number.  One digit different and you’re calling someone else.  Lol.  Going with the phone number analogy, think of how many different phone numbers there are in the world.  

   

There are more breast configurations than that.  There are NOT that many bras. 

So, you have to decide where you’re going to compromise.  For me, I compromise on a bra in the immediate projection arena (I have it, a lot of bras don’t)and bra lining(I don’t care if folks know I’m cold).  Aspects that I can’t or won’t compromise: Cup width (I don’t want wires poking me in the armpit), molded cups (I just don’t fill the top), and bras that are constructed in such a way that the top of the cup gives me “tarp on a boat”.

And it takes trying on a few styles to get a feel for what you’ll compromise on and what you won’t.  To date, I’ve tried on between 65 and 80 bras—some I’ve got notes on because I ordered online and tried them on at home; others were ones that I tried on in stores and didn’t have my notebook with me.  I’ve found four that worked but ALL required me to compromise on fit in some way with the compromise being different for each style.

The process of narrowing down takes some time, especially if you don’t have a bra store near you or you don’t have the method or means to order online.  I just encourage you to not give up.  Eventually, you won’t have to compromise (as much) and you will find a bra that fits.  Even if it’s just a matter of fitting *better* than your old bras.

Breasts have roots? What are they, trees?

In a previous post, I wrote a short summary about immediate projection as it pertains to my own breasts.  (You can read it here: A Short Explanation About Immediate Projection ) This post is going to be more about roots with a bit about projection as well.

Roots are the place that your breast connects to your chest wall.  If you were to think of things like Egyptian pyramids or a skyscraper, roots would be the foundation of them--that first layer of stone.  You may find it funny that I use a pyramid or a skyscraper as an example because the breasts that we see in media NEVER look like such a thing but there are breasts out there that are very much conical--they project so immediately that they look like small pyramids on their sides.  There is nothing wrong about this shape.  It's just a shape that some folks have.  But, I digress.

Roots can be tall and they can be short.  Tall roots often start up near the collar bone.  Large busted women can feel like they're going to get strangled by their breasts when they lay down because all the breast tissue might slide up to their neck.  Below, is my rendition of (two portrayals of) tall roots:

The top of the breast is well above the InfraMammary Fold.  In none of my drawings have I drawn nipples.  This is deliberate.  I wanted people to be able to see their own breasts in my pictures so that they can get a better idea of their shape.
In the picture above, both the shapes are a more immediate projection with the one on the right being less full in general.  Each are pendulous as well--there is considerable tissue below the IMF.

Below, is my depiction of (two portrayals of) short roots:

The top of the breast is much nearer the IMF, with the drawing on the right being less full in general.  Both would be considered to have immediate projection as well as being pendulous.

In both pictures, the image on the right might be considered to have softer tissue.  It's more easy to manipulate and might be more forgiving when trying to find a bra that fits.  Although my own breasts look like neither of the images in the bottom picture, they do have short roots.  Mine resemble the drawing in the post linked above and have been described--based upon Fit Checks on reddit--as being short enough that I'm functionally Full on Bottom even though I'm equally FoB and FoT.

Christina Hendricks, of Mad Men, has tall roots.  The tops of her breasts start almost at her shoulders--internet search any image of her to see what I'm talking about.  Angelina Jolie, on the other hand, has medium to short roots--images from her movie Gia are what I used as reference.
**edited to add that it was brought to my attention that Christina Hendricks may not actually have tall roots.  She may just be always wearing an ill fitting bra and that her breast tissue may be soft enough that it's pushed up and over, creating some serious muffin-top.  However, I think the pictures of her help to understand the concept of tall roots.

Breast root height are just one more thing to take into consideration when trying to find a bra that fits.

A Short Explanation About Immediate Projection*

*edited Sept 2016 to state that Immediate Projection is interchangeable with Bottom-of-the-Cup Projection and Immediate Depth.*

I received my new bras today.  Not the ones that end my ongoing Perfect Fit journey but the ones that are going to get me through while I continue that journey.  The ones that fit Oh My Goodness so much better than the ones that I’ve been wearing up until now.  They’re not perfect though.  They’re a bit too shallow.  You may ask: What does “shallow” mean in the context of bras?  Well, it’s quite similar to what it means in the traditional sense: not enough space for the item that it must contain.  It becomes readily apparent when you put on a bra and even more so if you have what is known as “immediate projection.” 

Here is my attempt to duplicate/illustrate immediate projection (***edited to add: as it pertains to me and my "girls"):

It’s different from being pendulous, even if there is a bit of breast tissue below the InfraMammary Fold--where the underside of breast tissue meets the ribcage.  

My illustration for pendulous:

So, when you have immediate projection, if you put on a bra that is too shallow, the portion of the breast tissue that “projects” the most from your ribcage is going to, essentially, seek out the deepest part of the cup.  This often results in a bit of bra flatness between the bottom of the breast and the underwire.

See that flatness here (my index finger is actually resting on it):

So, that is why these new bras aren’t perfect but, if you’ve seen my original bras, you can see they are infinitely better than before.

I have to say: It feels odd to not be adjusting my breasts constantly.  They're no longer in danger of falling out the bottom (because they've pushed the bra too far from my ribcage) or popping out the top (because they worked their way up and over).  It's rather nice.  :D

Swoop and Scoop

As much as it's important to be familiar what kind of shape your breasts are or whether they're Full On Top (FOT) or Full On Bottom (FOB) or whether they have wide roots or narrow roots (or tall or short roots), the best place to start for getting the right fit is to Swoop and Scoop.  Reach into the cup and bring forward all that breast tissue that is hanging out under the armpit.  Those of us who've been wearing incorrectly fitting bras for years...hell, decades even, may have more than others; same if you're a bit heavier than say someone who may be in a 32 band.  Bring forward all that tissue.  I have to hang on to the outer edge of my underwire to really get a good swoop and scoop but, let me tell you.  It makes all the difference.

Here's me before Swoop and Scoop (in the bra that has been my "go to" bra for about a year now):

In the middle picture, above, you can see the migrated breast tissue that is just hanging out there.

Now, here's after I've Swooped and Scooped:

You can see how my cleavage is "popping" and so not in a good way.  I've got four boobs aka "quad boob" like crazy.
When you've got a bra on, Swoop and Scoop.  Does it still fit?

Some Additional Info Regarding the Bras that I Tried

As I mentioned in this post, my new calculated size is a 36FF/36H.  There are three different size ranges, depending upon country of manufacturer, so a 36FF on the U.K. size chart equals (for the most part) a 36H on the U.S. size chart.  The U.K. also has an H cup but it's considerably larger than the FF, given that the band size is the same.  See the size chart below for a visual depiction.

Update Feb 3, 2016: Please note that only the UK sizes actually exist in those cups.  I filled in the U.S. and EU sizes just to give an idea of their corresponding cups.

U.S.	U.K.	EU
AA	AA	AA
A	A	A
B	B	B
C	C	C
D	D	D
DD/E	DD	E
DDD/F	E	F
DDDD/G	F	G
DDDDD/H	FF	H
DDDDDD/I	G	I
J	GG	J
K	H	K
L	HH	L
M	J	M
N	JJ	N
	K	O
P	KK	P
Q	L	Q
R	LL	R
S	M	S
T	MM	T
U	N	U
V	NN	V
W	P	W
X	PP	X

That being said, all the bras I tried on were either 36FF or 36H, depending upon the manufacturer.  I didn't mention anything about cup width or the shallowness of the bras.  The post was merely a memory-jogger/brief peek into the fact that I totally feel your pain when it comes to finding the right bra.  As I learn, I will share what I learn with you so that you, too, can become more informed about what fits and how it should fit.It would probably be so much easier if they just depicted cups much the way that doctors do: with cc--a measurement of volume but even that would have it's drawbacks and would take quite a period of adjustment to get used to.  Jockey has attempted to do something like this but even they are limited on their cup range.  They have only 10 choices for cups and their bands *do* start at 30 but their largest cup/band combo is 10/34 (cup/band) and the largest cup for the 30 band is a 7.

Then This Lengthy Bombshell of a Post (dated Jun 6th, 2015)

Last week I got an urge to research the history of Victoria’s Secret and the multitude of scents that the company has put out over the past few decades.  I came across some really great information.  I even created a new Pinterest board for all the articles that I was coming across:  https://www.pinterest.com/nidena/well-informed-is-well-armed  (Want to see a listing of all the perfumes?  Go here: http://victoriassecretfragrances.blogspot.com/p/list-of-fragrances.html)

But it was what I found when I was searching for bra fit and tips that I really came across a wealth of information that had absolutely nothing to do with Victoria’s Secret except that our fit measuring procedures are…well…incomplete, at best; totally wrong, at worst, which is how it is when there is such high turnover in the company.  Said turnover is even higher now but that is a whole other blog post that I’ve yet to write.

While looking up bra fitting, I found a whole discussion board for that very thing.  You can find it here: http://www.reddit.com/r/ABraThatFits and read to your heart’s content.  I will try to summarize the key aspects to finding a correct fit and link you to a few places that were instrumental in my learnings thus far.

Let me just tell you that finding this information, and realizing that what I’ve been teaching my customers about fit, made me have an emotional experience much like I did when I discovered that I was not wrong regarding my misgivings about being a Mary Kay consultant.  (Read that story here: http://www.pinktruth.com/board/index.php/topic,361.0.html)   

Like back then, I knew something was missing.  I’ve known for some time that I wasn’t providing all that I could to my customers.  I’ve had to refer so many to online retailers but I knew that they would just be guessing at their size because the information that I was giving them really did feel incomplete.  I want my customers to feel empowered; to come to me having an idea of what they’re looking for; and, if that isn’t the case, to walk away with the knowledge that they needed so that they could shop online with confidence.

It’s in this blog post that I hope that I can do that.

The first step was getting the measurements and inputting them into the online calculator.  Now, mind you, I’ve sized myself in the DD and DDD range for YEARS.  Sometimes a 34 band, sometimes a 36.  The only thing that I had correct was the 36.  See, VS bras have really stretchy bands.  That’s why it’s easy to think that a 36 is quite roomy.  It’s really not all that stretchy in a bra that fits correctly but I digress, sort of.  The calculator called for FIVE measurements.  If you’ve ever read the “bra fit” post of mine (http://nidena.blogspot.com/2008/10/to-ensure-bra-fits.html), you’ll know that VS measures three locations MAX.  All these years…incomplete information.  To really get your correct calculated measurement, you need to take a measurement in all five places (maybe positions is a better word).

Do you have your tape measure?

I’ll wait.  :D
Okay, now you gotta free the girls to take the measurements.  That's right!  Take off the boulder holder and let them feel the breeze.

1. Snug underbust
2. Tight underbust (The underbust is just what it sounds like: right under your boobs, in the “crease”)

Okay, stand up now.

3. Standing overbust (wrap that tape gently around your torso and across your nipples.  I know…it’s cold…and a little sensitive…but endure it)

Got that?  Now bend over.  Let them puppies dangle for all they’re worth.

4. Leaning overbust (and you thought standing overbust was difficult lol)  I totally understand if you need help with this one.  Some ladies just have a lot of boob and might need to phone a friend.

Are you tired?  That’s okay ‘cause now you get to lay down.  Yep, the next measurement is flat on your back.  Well, unless you have a butt that doesn’t let you lay flat.  Lol

5. Laying overbust (don’t fret if this is smaller than the other two.  Mine was too)

Borrowed this pic from http://www.reddit.com/r/ABraThatFits to give you a visual on where/how to measure:

Now…and I really hope you remembered to write all those down otherwise you’ll have to do them again…go plug those numbers in here: http://www.brasizecalculator.tk/

I hope you didn’t pass out when you saw your new calculated size.
I was Wow’d also.  

Are you overwhelmed?  Take a breather.  Then come back for just a few more things.

Once you get over the “sticker shock” of your new size, you’ll want to learn about:

--Projection—Shallow vs Projected breasts (Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about this to be able explain it so I will suggest checking out this page: http://www.reddit.com/r/ABraThatFits/wiki/shallow and the links on it)

--Fullness—on both the top and bottom  (A great guide can be found here: http://i.imgur.com/VPH5K0E.png  think of the spot where the red and blue lines meet as the spot where your nipple sits)

I have to also say that www.venusianglow.com is a great resource for this information.  Just click on *Bra Matrix* on that site and you’ll encounter a whole other world of stuff about boobs and bra fittings.

Now, I know you’re probably thinking: “But my bra fits just fine.  Why do I need all this information?”  I thought the same thing.  After all, I have nine years experience of bra fitting from working at Victoria’s Secret.  If I was a pilot, I could wear one of those patches that have cumulative hours on it.  Mine would be, easily, 500+ hours.  I mean, doesn’t it look like my bra fits?  Except maybe that little bit of pudge under my armpit but everyone has that, right? 

Wrong!

My life was changed when I read three little words and employed the action that which they describe: SWOOP AND SCOOP.
While wearing the bra, you reach in and pull that flesh that we've always thought was "pudge" forward so that it's back where it's supposed to be.  Why?  Because that "pudge" is breast tissue that has been exiled from the ill-fitting bras that we've worn all these years.  That's right!  Reclaim that additional breast tissue with pride.

Here’s the same bra with breasts swooped and scooped:

Doesn’t fit so well after all.  Note the "muffin top" above the cups.  When I realized that, I sought out that bra calculator (here it is again so that you don’t have to scroll up to the top: http://www.brasizecalculator.tk/ ), took all my measurements and plugged them in.  I about had a heart attack when I saw the new measurement.  36FF?  That can’t be right.  And that’s not even a U.S. size.  36H?  What the heck!!!  I had to test this theory.  There’s no way that a 36FF/36H is going to fit me.  It’ll be too big.  I couldn’t be more incorrect.  Here’s a (more) correctly fitting 36FF/36H:

Now, maybe you're wanting to rebutt with: "But that's a full coverage bra!"  It is; however, the demi bras fit just as well.  Unfortunately, they were a little too sheer/lacy for me to feel comfortable putting pictures of them on my blog.  I hope you can understand that.

My life will be forever changed.  Unfortunately, unless I lose a whole lot of breast, I won’t be buying bras at my place of employment any longer.  I prefer bras that fit over ones that are readily accessible. 

I plan to help a few folks local to me find both.  See my next post for how I plan to do that but FIRST go get your new calculated size.  You're gonna need it.

An Early Attempt to Help Customers Help Themselves (originally posted to my personal blog on Oct 22nd, 2008)

Basic measurements are (while wearing a decent fitting bra):
Around the top of the chest/under armpits
Around the fullest part of the breast (where the nipples are)
And then around the rib cage just under the breast.
Make sure your tape measure is not on any breast tissue with the bottom measurement. I've had a lot of customers come in and tell me that they were last measured at XX when, in fact, I just measured them at XX-3 because the last person to measure them didn't make sure that breast tissue and/or bra underwires weren't included in the measurement. I've even gone so far to ask women to please lift their breasts up so that I could ensure I wasn't measuring the bottom of their breast tissue. (Once the tape measure was in place, I had them let go)
Your band size will fall between the measurement under the armpits and the one around the ribcage. I can't give you an exact # because the rest of your structure will dictate which it is but it does give you a ball park figure.
For example, if I measure a customer at 38" under her armpits; 40" around her fullest part; and 36" around her ribcage, I will suggest a 38B and a 36D as places to start. You won't know what fits until the bra is on. From then, change only the size to find the correct one in that bra. Don't change bra and size unless it's super obvious that both are not suited.
If all your bras have padding in them, and that's what you're wearing when you measure, subtract a 1/2" or so or just measure a little snugger...not tight, but snug.
With fit, you want to ensure there are only two breasts. You don't want two hanging out the center and you don't want two squishing into your armpits. If you have this problem, try a larger cup.
If your breasts are falling out the bottom of the bra, the band is too big/stretched out.
If the band keeps hiking up in back, go down a band size but get the comparable cup size. It will be the same cup coverage but snugger in the band.
You want the center gore (the part between the cups) to be flat/flush against your skin. You should not be able to put you keys in this space--it's not a pocket. If the center gore isn't flat, go up a cup and down a band--see below for conversion.
Don't be afraid of letters beyond DD. It is what it is. Wouldn't you rather have a bra that fits rather than a specific size. Though, I did encounter a customer who refused to believe she was a 36DDD and only because she had to have a VS bra.
Bra math:
32C=34B or 30D
34D=36C or 32DD
36DD=38D or 34DDD
38DDD=40DD or 36DDDD
D=D (4" difference between band size and cup size)
DD=E (5")
DDD=EE=F (6")
DDDD=EEE=FF=G (7")One last tidbit...we all have mismatched breasts...some as much as a cup difference. Fit the larger cup. You can always add to the smaller one. You can't make the larger one smaller with a bra.
Can't find your size in stores, try figleaves.com, barenecessities.com, or herroom.com. They all have beautiful bras in a huge range of sizes...all the way from 28A to 52J.